Friday, February 09, 2007

"...Muslims Are Infidels!"?!

The following conversation left me speechless. It was part of a long discussion...

Me: "... that is why one can not just say that ALL Christians or Jews are infidels as he mentioned, that is not what Quran says... walaho a3lam.".

Him: "Yes, i understand your point, but i think people have double standards here."

Me:"How come?"

Him:" Muslims too are infidels!".


Him:" In the Christian belief (and Jewish and any other religion) Mohammad (PBUH) is not a prophet and Islam is not a religion sent by God, at least the vast majority believes so. Read their books."

Me:" Not all of them akeed ya3ny..."

Him:" Wait, i am not finished. In the Christian belief, if anyone doesn't believe that Jesus IS God and that Jesus will save him from Hell fire, then he is a non-believer and WILL go to hell. Hence, in their beleif MUSLIMS ARE INFIDELS!".

Him:"So, they are so angry for instance that Mohammad Emmara said something about them, while they say that about us and others all the time. That is double standards!"

Me: ................... :

Mood: Silence......................


OpeRon® said...

No comment!

Anonymous said...

Of course Christians don't believe in Islam or Mohammed, that is why they are not Muslims. And of course Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah... that is why they are not Christians.

I think the anger comes from the fact that in Egypt people are not free to express their opinion about religion in general.

Followers of each of those three religions believe that they are on the right path and everyone else is going to be punished.

If any one says any thing else, it means they don't even know what their religion is about!!

The Egyptian Falcon said...

Well, yeah, as a Moslem I have known this long ago. It is so normal that followers of one religion would think that any other non-followers are infidels. This has never been an issue for me; everyone is a non believer if he does not believe in my religion. Actually, Islam is distinguished in one thing vs. other believes as in Islam, Christians and Jews are not the same as people with other believers. Islam considers both as religions and their followers as believers of God still, in spite of all differences.

Now there are 2 issues in our part of the world which always ignite any religious debate. 1st is that we use the word "infidel" as an insult, while it is not; it is just a description of a status of a person. As a Moslem I'm infidel from Christian stand point, and they might be also from my point of view.

The 2nd issue is the dilemma of Freedom of Belief, we did not yet decide on which way we want to go, do we want to prosecute who converts from Islam to other or no belief or do we want/can leave it free and God judges people on doomsday? In Europe, this issue has been resolved long ago, so people move back and forth between believes and no one can negatively comment on that.

The issue with Mr. Emara's book is that he published his opinion which says that Christians and Jews are infidels, opposing this does not mean double standards. I need to ask any Moslem, does he accept that a book gets published saying that Moslems are infidels? I don't, so I don't also approve of what Mr. Emara did.

The other issue was that he stated that they can get killed or robbed or hurt freely as they are infidels, which means a license to kill that I don't believe represent the essence of Islam or its spirit. Most importantly, it really makes non Moslems feel isolated and degraded as if they are 2nd level citizens, which is not again the reality or what is preached by Islam. In the eyes of the Islamic State, Moslems and non Moslems are the same as far as the day to day life. Who is going to go to hell or who is going to go to paradise is all left to God – all mighty - to decide.

Fadfadation said...


"Followers of each of those three religions believe that they are on the right path and everyone else is going to be punished."

True, but we are not GOd. Only God will judge us and decide.

The Egyptian Falcon,

I totally agree. Very well put.

But by the way, The guy in the discussion was trying to state, that Christians should not be so offended by Omara calling them infidels since they call us the same.

The Egyptian Falcon said...

Yes dear fadfadation, but they are not allowed to publish it, and if they dare to do, they will be prosecuted immediately. Look what happened to Farouk Gosni when he said something wrong about Hejab. He was almost going to loose his head man.

No one can ask us about our opinions as long as they are delt with inside the mosques as they deal with there's in the churches. but if we want to be fair, then either all to publish or all not to.

So we all have our own believes, but we shouldn't brag about them all the time ignoring the others around us.

Thanks a million for your important post, again it is significant opportunity to discuss some sensetive issues openly. And of course, a great chance to get introduced to such a decent blogger as yours.


Fadfadation said...

Egyptian Falcon,

Shokran leek. I'm flattered.

Talking about:
"then either all to publish or all not to"

i'm not sure, but if we insult another religion than that is not really freedom of speech. It is more like, freedom of insulting.

The line between expressing your thoughts about another belief and insulting it is a very fine one.

Both Chirstians and Muslims (talking about Egypt masalan) know what we believe in and what they believe in.
So, i think we should not brag about our opinions in front of others without any consideration of their feelings.
This goes both ways of course.

Red Tulips said...


Please show me one Christian or Jewish nation where Muslims have to fear for their lives because they are branded "infidels." Until you can show such a country, then I am at a loss over the point of this post.

Red Tulips said...

One more thing. Every person in the world should be granted full freedom to insult every other religion. Laws against blasphemy should be unequivocably banned.

It is a weak faith that cannot withstand criticism. This is different, of course, from active incitements to violence ("kill the infidel"), which of course should be banned.