Friday, February 09, 2007

When Israel Says:" Ishrabo Min El Bahr"!

Al Jazeera - Al Aqsa Mousque Clashes (Palestine)

From BBC:

Dozens of people were hurt when police moved in to quell violent protests against excavation work in the area.
Skirmishes in other parts of the city have also been reported.
The violence flared over the digging work, which protesters say threatens the foundations of the al-Aqsa mosque - Islam's third holiest site.


All i can say is... as long as we are hoping that someone else will solve our problem for us, 7ane7'bat dema3'na feel 7eet time after time.

Laa 7awla wala kowata ila BelAh!

Mood: 2arfaaan!

38 comments:

bibi-aisha said...

May every muslim realise its our duty to defend al-aqsa.its ironic that people in non-muslim countries r allowd to protest freely, but in egypt, police beat protestors who were demonstratin against israels excavatn. When will the madness end?

OpeRon® said...

I absolutely agree, As long as we do not stick together to solve our own problems, Noone whatsoever will solve it for us..

it is sad, ironic, embarrassing but unfortunately true!

Fadfadation said...

Egyptian governement never seizes to amaze me.
The beat up their own people.

It is so ironic.

om luji said...

I wonder why Israel has chosen this timing to perform those diggings. I thought about it a lot but failed to come up with a logical answer.

Now remains the question of what can be done about it. Demonstrations whether in Egypt or any other country will do nothing. On the political level, Egypt has sent a strict message via the Israeli ambassador. What else can be done?

Mak said...

We could "nashgob wa nonadid". Works everytime. At least it makes us look like we care

Fadfadation said...

Walahi ya Mak mana3aref a7'retha eh :(

raghoooda said...

ur right, waiting for the savior to come back or Dooms day when They'll be defeated is our passive hope.
when it will be over:(
im fed up of politics and Paestine issue btw.

Fadfadation said...

Walahi ya Raghoooda all of us are sick of all the bad things that are happening to our countries and our people.

bas 7ana3mel eh,

"laa yo2min a7adookom 7ata yo7ebo lee a7'eeh maa yo7ebo lee nafsihi"...

Red Tulips said...

Al aqsa is a desecration. It was placed on the Temple Mount in order to deny Jews their holiest spot. Meanwhile, Israel is acting to make the Temple Mount safer, and Muslims are rioting!

Sad.

Red Tulips said...

More on al aqsa

I am not going to mince words: any Muslims who is upset over al aqsa is a hypocrite.

Period.

Fadfadation said...

"Israel is acting to make the Temple Mount safer"

Oh why thank you Mrs.Israel!

You are missing the whole point, it is not only what they are doing now that is the problem. It is the many incedents and actions of Israel throughout the past 60 years.

Ha ha ha, such classic words from a classical Pro-Israeli (Zionist) such as yourself.

How honorable of you and your lot. Yes, of course, Israel is all about morals, isn’t it?

Morals that make you take land that isn't yours.
Morals that make you build settlements on lands that don’t belong to you.
Morals that make you deny the right for 3 million Palestinians to go back to THEIR land.
Morals that make you build a wall that is illegal per international court.
Morals that make you humiliate Palestinians every day at check points.
Morals that let you send your massive army against unarmed people.
Morals that let you demolish people's homes when you feel like it.
Morals that let you enter sacred areas with your soldiers, amours and dogs.

Do i need to go on???!

If (just for the sake of argument and humoring Israeli-lovers like yourself) Al A1sa was placed on the Temple Mount in order to deny Jews their holiest spot (which is a ridiculous argument to start with), and that is a desecration (in your double standard ethical view), then what do you call all that i mentioned above???

i guess all what Israel does (in your view) is Israel’s right to exist.?!
Israel and people like you are the hypocrites Red Tulip…

If you expect to get sympathy here, then you are in the wrong place.
Go along and enjoy screwing the Palestinians lives, believe or not… it won’t last forever.

Oh, and by the way…that’s the real period.

Red Tulips said...

I am Mrs. Israel??? LOL.

You think the Palestinians are unarmed? What do you call rocket launchers, and AK47s? They are unarmed? Are you that gullible???

As far as Palestinians go, please show me a 'Palestinian' state that existed that somehow was taken over by Israel. Please show it to me!

Oh wait...it never existed. What is Israel was Ottoman for centuries, and then it was British, and now it is Israeli. Guess what - at no point in the history of the land did 'Palestinians' have their own state.

The wall that exists is there for protection purposes. The home demolitions occurred (they rarely occur now) because of tunnels hidden underneath the homes that were used to smuggles guns and drugs. The checkpoints exist because Palestinian suicide bombers would otherwise blow up Israel.

In short, all that you cited is defensive.

There would have been a 'Palestinian' state in 1948 if the Arabs did not attack Israel on the first day it formed as a state. There would have been a 'Palestinian' state in 1967, after Israel won the Six Day War, if there wasn't a declaration that the land Israel won (and tried to hand back) would not be accepted back in exchange for peace. There would have been a 'Palestinian' state in 2000, if Arafat accepted a deal that was the best deal the Arabs could hope to accept.

The reason there is no Palestinian state is because the Palestinians are ruled by Nazis (literally, Arafat's uncle was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, an architect of the Final Solution), whose goal is to wipe Israel into the sea and kill all Jews.

As far as Al Aqsa, please read the Koran and I ask you to cite one instance where it says the place where Muhammad ascended to heaven (something I do not believe happened, but will argue happened merely for the sake of argument) exactly on the site of the Temple Mount. Cite one instance.

Oh right, there isn't any.

And on top of desecrating the Temple Mount, the holiest site for Eastern Orthodox was turned into a mosque - Hagia Sofia. The holiest sites of Hindus in India were turned into mosques. (Babri mosque, for example) And on top of THAT, Muslims have been destroying THEIR OWN history for quite some time. Just look at the destruction of Islamic holy sites in Saudi Arabia.

How exactly are you going to defend all this?

You can't, as it is indefensible.

Red Tulips said...

Let me add that most of the 'Palestinians' have tenuous claims to the land at best.

The UN defined 'Palestinian' as someone with TWO YEARS of ties to the land. TWO YEARS! They never did that before or since.

And on top of THAT, Jews have been living in Israel basically since recorded history, interrupted by massacres of Jews, but always coming back. Always.

Can you honestly say that as a Muslim, your "home" is in Israel? Are you joking? And yet for all Jews, Israel is their spiritual home.

This is just how it is. You have Mecca and Medina (Medina, incidentally, a city built by Jews, and now a city where Jews are banned from), and Jews have the tiniest strip of land called Israel, a state that didn't even kick out the Arabs who already lived there! (they are now Arab Israeli)

So why exactly are you anti-Zionist again? Because every single claim you just put forward is incorrect. Every one.

I am waiting for one credible reason why you are anti-Zionist.

Red Tulips said...

One more thing for real. The dig that is occurring around Al Aqsa is a dig in order to strengthen and secur a ramp up to the Temple Mount. In other words, to make Al Aqsa safer. There are video cameras on the site 24/7, which prove this.

And yet you continue to spout what you spout.

Sad, really.

Fadfadation said...

"please show me a 'Palestinian' state that existed that somehow was taken over by Israel"

wow, i think you need to put on some glasses. When was the last time you went to an oculist? lol
Lands taken in 1948 and 1967 were fairy tails or what?
Tanks and armed vehicles roaming in streets where they want and when they want, that’s not at least called trespassing??
The wall built around large areas, isn’t that supposingly Palestinian property before 1967 waR?

Do I need to go on?

“You think the Palestinians are unarmed? What do you call rocket launchers, and AK47s? They are unarmed? Are you that gullible???”

Oh so the kids going to schools go with Katyoucha rockets instead of pens?
The old women wonder about with AK47s?
Even if you are talking about the militias (hamas, Fath…etc), oh…wow yes, of course you are right these “rocket launchers and AK47 which “groups” have are like the Phantoms, helicopters and MIrkAva tanks that the “State” of Israel has roaming all over the place whenever they want.

Yeah, right. Palestinians who have no army and are counting on the rocket launchers and AK47s are outrageous, how dare they try to protect themselves against the poor Israelis…

COME ON, BE FAIR!

“no point in the history of the land did 'Palestinians' have their own state.”
You obviously have no idea how the Islamic state ruled. It was a vast nation with each country having it’s own ruler appointed (like governates).
Regadless..

If that is your argument for still occupying Palestine…. My God! I though you’ll say something less ridiculas!


“all that you cited is defensive.”

Why yes, of course…what else can you say.

Don’t you think the best defence is to have peace where first Israel gives Palestinians\Lebanese\Syrians their land and stop settling on lands not belonging to you?
But, I guess that is not something you are considering.

“The reason there is no Palestinian state is because the Palestinians are ruled by Nazis”

Besides that comment being a very clear racist thing to say, It seems to me that anyone who will fight the injustice and occupation of the Israeli’s will be called a Nazi by pro-Israelis.
That’s the easiest way…just call them names… feels better when you called them that?

“As far as Al Aqsa, please read the Koran and I ask you to cite one instance where it says the place where Muhammad ascended to heaven (“

Oh so now you are giving us lessons in Koran.
There is something called Suna which explains Quran, and that is where the journey to Al Aqsa was explained.
If you want to debate the location of al Aqsa, well we (arabs\Muslims) have been living in these lands long enough to know where it is…. Lol

Our land and our Quran, and you want to lecture us about them…how entertaining!

“Hagia Sofia”
Is not our issue here. Lets say that was wrong, at least we never did what your precious Israel is doing to Palestinians whether Muslims or Christians under the DEFENCE propaganda that you are using!

“And on top of THAT, Jews have been living in Israel basically since recorded history, interrupted by massacres of Jews, but always coming back. Always.”

Oh so it is a historical proclaim. OK, since the first one there is the one who should keep it, then give it to us “Egyptians” since the pharaohs were there long before Judaism (Moses) ever exsisted.
Your history is 3000 years, we have 7000 on our hands.
Besides the Pharaohs, there were the arab Kanaites… they live forever there.

I’ll expect you to give us the land…come on... since History is your claim!

“Medina, incidentally, a city built by Jews, and now a city where Jews are banned from”

Hahahahaha, you guys can’t stop saying such stuff. You built everything in the world, haven’t you.? now you even built Madinah. Oh God, you’ll never seaze to amaze us.

The fact that there were jews in Madinah does not mean you built it. What type of argument is that…lol… very lame!

As for being jews in Madinah being banned, I guess you need to read what the jews in the city did to Islam and the prophet.
But, what am I talking about, you only seem to choose from history what suits you…not what history actually says.

“a state that didn't even kick out the Arabs who already lived there!”

3 millions fugitives world wide whom are not allowed by Israel to go back home…all that is not kicking out.

COME ON!! BE FAIR!

Just for the record..

We (Muslims) do not have a problem with jews or Judaism ( I can not be a muslims except if I believe in Moses and Jedism that was sent to him), we have a problem with Isrealis.
When Israel gives back what is not its in the first place, then a lot can change.
But, before that… please don’t talk all that gibberish. Because what is just is very clear!
Land not your…get out of it!

And by the way, I am not anti-Zionist, non of us are can be.

Do you know why?
Because Arabs (mulims) are Zionists (cousins of Israelis). Prophet Mohammad is the offsprind of Ismael the son of Abraham and the brother of Issac.

We are against all the injustice that Israel is doing to Palestine.

That is what we REALLY have a problem with.

Red Tulips said...

Fadfadation:

Firstly, there was never a state of Palestine. Never. Ever. There was never an independent Palestine ruled by Palestinians in the history of the world. That is for starters.

Then let's delve deeper. The Jews were in the land of Israel since recorded history, and Judaism is 5,000+ years old. So there's that. But moreover, the Canaanites have ceased to be any entity in the world. Given Muslims pretend all cultures that came before Islam do not exist, they cannot then claim to ALSO be descendants from Canaanites. So the oldest land claim is VERY CLEARLY a land claim of Jews.

I guess if I steal your home and stay there long enough, it's mine, huh? Because that's what you are saying.

But there's more. Israel did not, repeat, DID NOT, kick Arabs out. The Arabs left on their own to WAGE WAR upon Israel in 1948! Such people DO NOT deserve to come back as citizens. They are traitors. And moreover, the land that is Israel was majority Jewish in 1948. Lest we forget, Israel was mostly a barren wasteland, until Jews came and made the desert bloom. It was only THEN that Arabs actually came to Israel to work re-plenished land. And lest we forget, the Jews paid handsomely for ALL property they purchased from the Ottoman Empire. Do you need to see a photo of Tel Aviv in 1909? It was nothing - a sand dune.

Tel Aviv in 1909

Are you actually going to say that such land was "stolen" from Arabs? How can you credibly say that????

But there's more.

Go to Israel and speak to Israelis. The majority of Israelis are from the Middle East and were kicked out of their countries.

That's right. There's all this sobbing over the Palestinians, when the majority of Israelis are in fact from Arab lands!

Moreover, the Palestinians were offered a state in 1948 and turned it down, instead waging war upon Israel. They were offered a state on multiple occasions, and instead choose war. Why is this?

Answer: Palestinians are ruled by Nazis.

And no, I am not being figurative. I mean literal Nazis.

Arafat's mentor and the designer of the PLO was the architect of the Final Solution of the Holocaust. He personally led the slaughter of tens of thousands of Jews. He was the undisputed leader of the Arabs in Palestine and led the slaughter of Jews during the Arab riots of the 1920s and 1930s.

Info on the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem

The leadership of the Palestinians are Nazis, and they have a goal of extermination in mind. It is merely a continuation of what they attempted to do during the Third Reich.

And so, instead of peace, the Palestinians disgustingly aim for Israeli civilians via suicide bombings, and are taught that Jews are subhumans in their schools, mosques, and media. Instead of peace, which they were offered on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS, the Palestinians seek to destroy, and not create. Instead of building a society with the billions of dollars in aid money they are given each year, they use the aid money for terrorism, or the aid money is embezzled and given to cretins like Suha Arafat.

In short, the Palestinians are using their rockets, AK47s, and suicide bombers against Israeli civilians, including babies, simply on orders of Nazis. If you read the history of the PLO, as I have, you will see I am right.

As far as Al Aqsa goes, I have read the Koranic and sunnah references. Nowhere does it say that the site that Muhammad 'ascended to heaven' occurred on the Temple Mount. NOWHERE. The holiest site for Jews was turned into a mosque in order to delegitimize the Jewish existence.

And let's really get down to it. The reason that Israel is hated is because Jews decided to get all uppity and refused to be dhimmis any longer. They decided they would no longer accept their place as second class citizens.

You know this. I know this. This is ultimately the reason behind Jew hatred and modern day antisemitism.

Red Tulips said...

Let me be clear. I am not saying that all the land, including what Israel won in 1967, was majority Jewish back in 1948. But the land that the UN mandated to Jews in 1947, a pathetic nothing of a parcel - WAS majority Jewish.

And yet even this was not acceptable.

Admit it...it's just not acceptable for dhimmis to have their own state, huh?

Red Tulips said...

One more thing. I know exactly why Jews were kicked out of Medina. There was warfare between Jews and Muslims. Fine. Does that explain why this remains true 1,500 years later????

Of course it doesn't.

And yes, Jews DID first settle Medina.

source

The truth of the Al Aqsa Intifada

Mak said...

Red Tulips, the way you're thinking, Jews really own the whole planet. They've been around much longer than Christians or Muslims and undoubtedly settled everywhere first. Does this mean that the Jews have the right to take over Germany and Afghanistan?

Oh wait, you say there was never a Palestine. The State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14, 1948. So what was there before that? Just a large chunk of unclaimed land? You say it was Ottoman then British land. This is correct. And let me remind you of a couple things:

First, Egypt and Jordan were also under Ottoman rule, so was most of what is now known as the Middle East. Does this mean that Egypt belongs to the Jews? Yeah I forgot, according to Zionists, it does.

Second, India was under British rule for a very long time. So was half the planet. So your Ottoman/British argument doesn't really have any value unless we're talking "the early bird" rules here.

You also say that the land that is now Israel was a majority of Jews in 48. True. Due to immigration and buying the land. Does this mean that the Chinese can declare a China in New York Chinatown? They are the majority there and they literally own the place.

I'm not even going to entertain your argument that Palestineans are taught that Israelis are subhumans in schools, media or whatever because the exact same thing could be said about Israelis. So lets leave this out.

I have to add that ALL Arabs (Muslim and otherwise) are Semites. So this whole antisemitism crap is pure ignorance.

You know what? I'm not going to say anymore. We'll just keep going around in circles with each person rephrasing whatever they said earlier.

I'm not attacking your person Red Tulips, I'm attacking your arguments. Everyone's free to believe whatever they want to believe. I believe that both sides have made mistakes. That's natural in a 60 year war. Both sides are trying to take over land which they "claim" is theirs, but one side is trying to take over this land, plus some more. This is enough evidence to me who is what.

Fadfadation said...

Red Tulipe,

Just about the jews leaving some arab countries…

Countries like Egypt did make them leave (officially all, but there are still a small minority in country)...but that was because what they did (working undercover for Israel). In the 1950s a very large undercover community of them were caught after a series of bombs on British and civil targets.
So, treason was the reason. So, maybe if they were loyal they'd still be in those arab countries!

And by the way, not all Jews whom lived in Arab countries have left.
Even in Egypt there is still a small jewish community.
In Morocco and Yemen for instance there are jews...etc.

And if you think that pre-1948 was is Israel’s land as you said, that's great! then why don't you get out of the rest and we'll all be ok!

I'll tell you why, it's because the dream you have in your books...
From Sinai to the river in Iraq, that's your so called proclaimed land, isn't it??

Of course talking about the Mufti being behind massacres…
I’ll talk to you in the same way and say, what about the jewish gangs that started targeting British soldiers in pre-1948 and even killed on of Britons peace ambassador at that time?
What about those gangs going from city to city killing (or massacring) Palestinians?

Of course all this doesn’t count because Israeli are very civilized while arabs are hordes of barbarians…

I told you, you never will seize to amaze us!

And that crap about us having a problem with Thimmis ruling us and we can not accept that jews will rule themselves…
Oh God…that is full of prejudice…. if muslims had such a problem, then you wouldn’t have millions of arabs and muslims (many very reiligious) living in the west with no problem at all that they live in countries not ruled by muslims.

And NO! our problem is not with Jews ruling themselves… it is with what they DO with Palestinians and settling on land that per the UN is not theirs!

You need to get rid your prejudice and stereotypes about arabs and muslims and try to be fair.

As Mak said...
If is obviously a waste of time, we will just keep saying stuff back and forth.

Root analysis and solution:
Give back the 1967 land, remove settlements, and don’t enter Palestinian land after that and things will change.

So don’t waste our breath or yours on trying to show us that ISraelis are dandy, pinkie, peaceful, and just dudes who want to live in peace…

If you are, then act as one!

Fadfadation said...

OH just to clarify...
"
At that time (1922) the population of Palestine consisted of approximately 589,200 Muslims, 83,800 Jews, 71,500 Christians and 7,600 others (1922 census}.[1] However, this area gradually saw a large influx of Jewish immigrants (most of whom were fleeing the increasing persecution in Europe).
"
So, even before 1948 till at least 1922, Palastinians were the majority.
As mentioned the influx started after it!


Also:
Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I, the League of Nations granted the British and the French temporary colonial administration over former Ottoman provinces south of present day Turkey. These regions had been called vilayets under the Ottomans, but were referred to as mandates at the time, after the process that allocated them. The two powers drew arbitrary borders, dividing the area into four sections. Three of these — Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon — survive to this day as states.
The fourth section was created from what had been known as "southern Syria". The region was officially named the British Mandate of Palestine, and was called "Falastin" in Arabic and "Palestina (E.I.)" in Hebrew. The British revised its borders repeatedly, but under the direction of Winston Churchill the region was divided along the Jordan River, forming two administrative regions. The portion east of the Jordan River was then known as Transjordan, and later became the Kingdom of Jordan. The area to the west of the Jordan retained the former name of Palestine.

So even back then there was something called Palestine!

Fadfadation said...

Mak,
You made me realize that I said something by mistake before...

"Because Arabs (mulims) are Zionists (cousins of Israelis). Prophet Mohammad is the offsprind of Ismael the son of Abraham and the brother of Issac.

We are against all the injustice that Israel is doing to Palestine. "

Actually, what i wanted to say is we are not anti-semites a and that we ARE Semites.

Red Tulips said...

Mak:

Nice try. In fact, there was an Egypt - called the Egyptian Empire - for quite some time. There is an ancient Egyptian culture seperate from the Ottoman culture. In contrast, there never, in the history of the world, was a Palestinian state ruled by 'Palestinians.'

This is just a fact.

Moreover, as I already showed, the majority of 'Palestinians' are in fact Arabs who recently moved to Israel, to take advantage of the higher wages/opportunity. The UN, as I already explained, said 'Palestinian' is someone with TWO YEARS of connection to the land!!!

Am I supposed to be impressed by that land claim?

And while there was never a "Palestinian state" in the history of the world, there WAS an ancient state of Israel, as well as Judea and Samaria. THIS did exist. The long historical, theological, and spiritual land connection between Jews and Israel exists.

And yet it is that connection which is continuously sought to be deprived to Jews by Muslims, who even deny Jews their holiest spot via a mosque.

And then, of course, there's fadfadation's nonsense claim about Jews in Egypt acting as spies or traitors. I know the history. SOME, a minority, DID. But it was a SMALL minority. This justifies kicking all Jews out? Are you serious? You really are justifying this? And there are 100 Jews remaining in Egypt in the present day. You actually consider this something? What a joke! And as far as Jewish terrorism, I know all about the Irgun and Stern. What they did was nothing compared to the Mufti's goal of extermination of Jewry. Moreover, they generally aimed for military installations (ex/ King David Hotel bombing), and not women and children, unlike the Mufti's hordes.

As far as the populations in Israel - I already clarified. The land that was the UN Mandate for Israel was majority Jewish. If you take ALL of the land, including the land designated for 'Palestinians,' which was taken over by Jordan (and whereby they suppressed the people until 1967), then of course, that was majority Palestinian.

Finally, nice try with the boring canard of "I am not antisemitic, because I am a semite!" Firstly, even if you were Jewish, that wouldn't stop you from being antisemitic. There's self hating Jews. Secondly, the term antisemite was made up by a German scientist in the 1870s, and has a very specific meaning, referring to Jews. More on this

So your attempt to say "I cannot be an antisemite, I am a semite," simply falls flat.

That said, I am not accusing you of antisemitism. But I am saying that I believe the heart of why most Arabs are against the Jews having their own state is that they do not like what was Muslim land for a long time (albeit land that was conquered from non-Muslims, and was originally Jewish) ruled by despised dhimmis. THAT is the bottom line. No other reason makes sense.

Arab Israelis have full voting rights in Israel, and in many ways have MORE rights than Jewish Israelis, as they are not drafted into the IDF, and get to CHOOSE whether they want to join or not!

If this was about human rights, your #1 concern would be every other state in the Middle East, or in Africa.

If this was about the fake 'destruction' of Al Aqsa (let me add, FAKE destruction), then you would be more upset about the Saudi destruction of Islamic holy sites.

It is about NONE of these things. The bottom line of why you do not like Israel is not because of any human rights concerns, or even religious concerns. It's because the Jews have their own state, and they won (and win) wars against Muslims. And let's face it, one of the key things cited in the Islamic holy books as "proof" that Islam is correct, is in the battles that Muhammad won.

In your heart of hearts, you are against Israel as a blow to Arab pride. Just admit it. There is no other logical reason. If you actually cared about your 'Palestinian' brethren, you would be outraged at Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria, where they lack full rights. You would be directing your energies there. Or you would be directing your energies against the corrupt PLO/Hamas, both of which care only about destruction and not about setting up schools, hospitals, and a society for their people. So in truth, you are not upset about the Palestinian people or their cause. That is an excuse, and not at the heart of your anti-zionism.

And in conclusion, you already stated that the very EXISTENCE of Israel is itself a crime, and then you go on to say that all will be dandy if Israel leaves the land it won in a war of attempted annhilation against Israel in 1967? How exactly do those statements mesh? Hamas refused to acknowledge Israel's very existence, and its charter states that Israel should be wiped to the sea. The PLO was founded by Nazis, and they too have an exterminationist goal. You expect any thinking person to REALLY BELIEVE that somehow if Israel leaves the 1967 land it won, all will be hunky dory?

Red Tulips said...

One more thing.

I was recently in Israel, having toured the entire country and spent significant time there. I specifically asked Israelis what they learn in schools.

Israelis are not taught about the Mufti, and his Nazi connection.

This is shocking news, and also true. Israelis are not even taught the truth of the PLO!

And it should go without saying they do not learn that Arabs are subhuman in their schools. They simply do not. There is no equivalence between the Israeli schools, media, and synagogues with the Palestinian schools, media, and mosques. NONE. I was IN Israel. I particularly was looking at this very issue!

Mak, it's nice to imagine that the world is equal, and that the Irgun/Stern somehow were equal to the Mufti's hordes. It's nice to think this, because then one can distance oneself and say "they're all bad."

But it's simply not true. Irgun/Stern as a rule aimed for military targets. There were a few tragic exceptions. The Mufti's hordes would aim for military targets, yes, but also wouldd routinely aim for women and children.

Terrorism is nothing new. Hebron was cleased as Judenrein in 1929 by the Mufti's hordes, who massacred over 150 civilians - including women and children - who had lived in Hebron since recorded history. They were NOT "new settlors."

When I was in Israel, I spoke to a woman whose great great grandparents had lived in Israel. As far back as she could trace, she had family who lived in Israel. It is ludicrous to claim that Jews are somehow new settlers to the land, given people like her and her family.

Fadfadation said...

"And while there was never a "Palestinian state" in the history of the world, there WAS an ancient state of Israel, as well as Judea and Samaria. THIS did exist. The long historical, theological, and spiritual land connection between Jews and Israel exists.
"

If that is what you believe (historical exsistance should be what gives someone the right to a place) than i you should go and tell the americans to get out of America, since it belongs HISTORICALLY to the red indians.

Of course you know that if you say that to any american, he'll say you are a complete mainiac!

It is not our problem lived there for a while then left for any historical reason.
Throughout our history there were jews living amongst us with no problem. that's a fact!

"And then, of course, there's fadfadation's nonsense claim about Jews in Egypt acting as spies or traitors. I know the history. SOME, a minority, DID. But it was a SMALL minority. "

As i asid before, not all have been banned. You need to read what i said.
And after all if you want to talk numbers, then try and prove that more than 3 million jews were sent out of arab countries (like what happened to Palistinans).


"What they did was nothing compared to the Mufti's goal of extermination of Jewry."

What about what the israeili have been doing for the past 60 year? oh yeah right... that's called defence....YEah right!

"So your attempt to say "I cannot be an antisemite, I am a semite," simply falls flat."

THe word semite comes from all prophets' family root. You need to check where the names came from. And as i said, Prophet MOhammad is the offspring of Abraham.
Like it or not, we are semites.

And for the hundredth time, we are not against jews or their right to live. We are against what Israelis are doing.

As for you lame try to turn the table and all your talk about human rights and the middle east countries issues, well if you read most of our blogs (us muslims\arabs) we do have problems with our governments. And we are not shy to express it.

THe thing is, these internal problems does not make Israel any better. Nor what it does any more human. NOr does it mean we'll leave you screwing with our brethrens as you said!


"And it should go without saying they do not learn that Arabs are subhuman in their schools. They simply do not."

WHy don't you ask them what is written in their religious books about all people who are not jews, and maybe ask them how they are viewed as? And how they should be treated?
You know what i mean.

"Terrorism is nothing new. Hebron was cleased as Judenrein in 1929 by the Mufti's hordes, who massacred over 150 civilians - including women and children - who had lived in Hebron since recorded history. They were NOT "new settlors.""

Neither were the 59 children of Kana in Lebanon, neither the Sabra-Shtella massacare with Israeli approval, neither were the children of Bahr AL Bakar School in Egypt which you bombed...need more examples of Israel's massacers???!

"she had family who lived in Israel."

I am sorry to disappoint you and your belief that we have a problem living around jews...
So, for the hundredth time...
We have no problem with jews living anywhere, the problem is the land that is not theirs! and the humiliation of Palestinians.

And as i said before, the use of historical exsistance as a way to prove land ownership is not that cut clear...the americans would be the best example.

I am sure you do not dare and say that americans have no right to exsist in America since it is Red indians land? or would you?

Fadfadation said...

To end this discussion i will mention this again:

"Root analysis and solution:
Give back the 1967 land, remove settlements, and don’t enter Palestinian land after that and things will change.

So don’t waste our breath or yours on trying to show us that ISraelis are dandy, pinkie, peaceful, and just dudes who want to live in peace…

If you are, then act as one!
"

I hope this time it gets through to you!

OpeRon® said...

Red Tulip

I am sure you're so "eager" to defend your "country".. but let's be honest about this .. the history did not start in 1900 or 1800 .. Palestinians were living on this land since the dawn of human history .. and you "an israeli" have occupied this land just the previous century ..

However, I do understand your tendency to bend & twist the truths because you happened to be an israeli .. and by the way, there's a huge difference between being a jew & being an israeli .. a fact u will never get!

The bottomline is that I won't be defending Palestinian rights with you .. because it seems pointless to win a discussion that you already know I am winning .. Oh yea, Before I leave you with this thought.. I will tell you that No matter what you do, you cannot elaborate the killing israelians do.. for whatever reason.. and Palestine is not your promised land.. you know why.. because you're cursed by god "prophet killers" .. & once and for all .. There'll be no israel in my dictionary!

Mak said...

Red Tulips, you know, if you keep repeating "This is just a fact" a couple million times then eventually, we'll take your word for it.

I just went through the "Carmen Saga" on Sandmonkey's and I can see that no one can get you to even think about what they wrote for a second. You just argue because you love to. You say you're athiest to make it look like you're objective while obviously you're not. I don't really know what to make of you. You come through as an Arab/Islam hater so you're not that different from the people you say Muslims are, you just hate them because they exist.

You're probably thinking I am diverting this into a conversation about you and I am sorry about this but after seeing your blog and your conversations on Sandmonkey, I just can't be bothered to have any debate because I know whatever I say will fall on deaf ears.

No one is absolutely right and no one is absolutely wrong. Yes, Jews lived around since forever, yes, people invent words like antisemitic all the time, no, your personal experiences are not enough to prove anything you say, yes, we're not happy there is a State of Israel and no State of Palestine, and no, there was a Filistine. So yes, pack your stuff up and go back to Europe or take over every piece of land where any Jew ever set foot.

Red Tulips said...

Mak,

I am a hater for stating facts, huh? The truth hurts, I know.

Fadfadation:

Israel is not your enemy. The enemy are the brutal Arab states that suppress the rights of their citizens, and then scapegoat Israel as the root of all evil. You will always be repressed as long as you blame Israel as the worst violator for human rights. And frankly, rightly so. Because you are falling for the oldest diversion tactic in the book. ("Don't blame me! Hey, I hate Jews too! Blame the Jews instead!")

operon and fadfadation:

Jew have lived in Israel, continuously, since recorded history. That's just a fact.

And yet, not only does Israel have an ancient historical land claim, but it also has a modern land claim, namely when it lawfully purchased land from the Ottomans. And on top of that, the UN sanctioned a State of Israel in 1947. Actually, you cannot have a stronger land claim than what Israel has...and still people doubt it! Astonishing!

Finally, fadfadation:

Why should Israel give up the land it won in 1967? You have yet to explain why it should do so, when you already have said that Israel is evil from 1948 onwards. All that giving up the land does is give land which will be used as a launchpad with which to commit acts of terror. THAT IS IT. The land that was won in 1967 was won in a war of attempted annhilation, and yet in 1967, Israel tried to give back the land immediately, only on condition of recognition and peace. THIS WAS REFUSED!

Israel has tried to give back this land again, in 2000, with the Barak plan. Again, this was refused and Arafat (Nazi) started the Intifada instead.

You have yet to explain how giving up the West Bank will magically take all the troubles away, and somehow Israel will live in a land of magic fairies and buttercups.

In the meantime, you blame Israel for seekingg to defend itself? What is Israel supposed to do when Nazis are teaching the Palestinians to value death and to suicide bomb themselves? Is Israel supposed to lay down and die? Walk softly to the gallows? Is that what you recommend? I want to be clear on this one.

In conclusion, the Palestinians do have it rough, and this I won't deny. But guess what? They have it rough because they are led by Nazis who do not care about building a society, and only care about destruction.

And so, if one wanted to be pro-Palestinian, one would be Pro-Israel, as in fact Israel is not the enemy of the Palestinians, rather, it is their Nazi leadership! And that is why I consider myself one of the few truly Pro-Palestinian people out there, because I stand against Nazism and the wholesale subjugation of the Palestinians done by the PLO and Hamas.

Red Tulips said...

One more thing...

Operon very nicely called Jews "prophet killers."

I assume he refers to Jesus?

That's rich! Jesus was Jewish, and killed by Romans, not Jews. Moreover, Christians believe Jesus didn't even die, because Jesus=God, and God can't die.

Therefore, Jews didn't kill Jesus, sorry. I know you wish you could argue for deicide, but sadly, the facts just don't work out for you.

Fadfadation said...

Red Tulipe,

What exactly in...
"Give back the 1967 land, remove settlements, and don’t enter Palestinian land after that and things will change"

Don’t you understand???

Is it too difficult for you guys to live by law for a change and do what the UN said and give back the 1967 land???!!!!

Don't try that silly argument of your governments are worse and all that.
As i said before (which shows you are not READing you are just typing):

"we do have problems with our governments. And we are not shy to express it.

The thing is, these internal problems does not make Israel any better."

Listen, this is hopeless. You don't really want to listen to us nor do you want to abide with the UN or the international court verdict.

And oh MY GOD! you said:
"as in fact Israel is not the enemy of the Palestinians"

Are you on some sort of medication or something? lol

Wake up lady, your hallucinating!

So, drop the subject. Enough has been said already.

Hopeless !

Fadfadation said...

Operon,

You said it, it is pointless speaking reason with any one who has that mentality.

Make,

lol..you're right:
"This is just a fact" a couple million times then eventually, we'll take your word for it.
"
loooooool

Objective meen ya 3am...lol

Here we are telling her:
give back the land, never re-enter it, and things will change.

But it is like speaking to a brick wall...lol
(wa3a i3tezarna lel7eta...haha).

It is obvious that She has a problem with Arabs and Muslims (she calls herself a Zionist athiest... so surely the views are totally different).

Everything we'll say she and her likes will go:" no, never happened!" or" i read about it, i know the facts!".

Aaaaaah, it's hopless mate.
Forget talking reason with her and her likes on such a subject.

It is just a complete waste of time and effort.

Red Tulips said...

Fadfadation:

Israel tried to give back the land it won in the Six Day War, a war of attempted annhilation of Israel, repeatedly and was turned down repeatedly. The only condition Israel gave was recognition of itself and peace. Wow, so horrible, huh?

The 1967 land is an excuse, and not the reason for Israel hatred. The real reason is that you have been sold a bill of goods by your corrupt leaders, blaming Israel for the world's problems, and you buy it. The real reason is Arab pride at being one upped by the dhimmi Jews. That's the real reason. Admit it.

Palestinians are being brutalized by their Nazi leaders. Suha Arafat has $1 billion of money meant to feed, clothe, and house the Palestinian people. There is now a civil war in the Territories.

WAKE UP! If you really gave even half a crap about the Palestinians, you would be pro-Israel and anti-PLO.

But I doubt you really care about the Palestinians. You only really care about using them to sob about how evil Israel is.

Red Tulips said...

And just for the record, Judaism is an ethnicity, culture, and religion all at once. Zionism recognizes this. Thus, you could be an atheist Jew, as Judaism is a birthright. (if your mom is a Jew, you are Jewish)

And for that matter, the State of Israel allows anyone aliyah citizenship who Hitler would have sent to the gas chambers. If Hitler thought you Jewish, you are Jewish enough for Israeli aliyah citizenship.

Red Tulips said...

One more thing for real...

Fadfadation, I know you speak against Arab governments. But you also hugely disproportionately focus on Israel. This speaks volumes about you and where your priorities are.

I have an exercise for you" objectively look at the Middle East and ask yourself "Who is the biggest threat to my security?" The answer, given I assume you to be a Sunni Egyptian Muslim, is Iran. Saudi Arabia already knows this, and I believe Mubarak already knows this. Another answer would be your two horrific choices for government in Egypt - Mubarak or the Muslim Brotherhood. If faced with those horrible choices (Who do you prefer, Stalin or Hitler?), I would flee the nation ASAP. You are deluded if you think the Muslim Brotherhood, a terrorist organization, actually cares about you or your rights.

So basically, the biggest threats you face are from fellow Muslims.

Israel has no intention of attacking Egypt, and in fact there is cooperation between Israel and the Mubarak government. Israel gave up a massive amount of land (Sinai peninsula) because it wants peace.

To think for even one second that your biggest problem is Israel means you are falling for the pathetic propoganda put out by Iran, Mubarak, and the Muslim Brotherhood.

It's sad, really, to see a person such as you, interesting and intelligent, falling for the oldest scapegoating trick in the book...blame the Jews.

But when Mubarak tortures and the Muslim Brotherhood backs terrorism, you won't see me caring. Because at this point, I am past caring until the Mideast WAKES UP and realizes the obvious.

Fadfadation said...

Lady, you are really hopeless...

Don't you understand what i mean by:" drop the subject. Enough has been said already."????????

Thank you for sharing your outstanding thoughts on Middle East, Regimes, Muslim Brotherhood and all.

Now leave us in peace...

insarefy! lol

Red Tulips said...

Fadfadation:

I know that deep down, you know I am right. I am glad that I posted here, because if I changed one mind, it was worth it.

Fadfadation said...

You need to seek medical help...