Sunday, May 27, 2007

Islam and Politics: Quit The Second Amendment Removal CRAP!

I wanted to write this post for a very long time. But because it was going to be a long one (and I am a very lazy guy) I have been postponing it for a while.

As we all know, a few months ago 34 of Egypt’s constitution amendments were under discussion for change in the parliament. Of course all is done and dusted now and approved.
During that time (when the 34 were under discussions) there were only two amendments that got most attention.

The weird thing was that an amendment that was not part of the 34 suggested amendments for change, was the one that got most attention.
That amendment was the second amendment which states that Islam is the official religion for Egypt and is the main source of legislation.

What I find “bitterly sarcastic”, was that everyone (toob el ard) was talking about it while this amendment was "NOT" part of the 34 amendments under discussion in the parliament.

OK, if people want to talk about be it. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.

Seems the ones hammering on the second amendment were on of the following group of people (loosely speaking):

  • Secularists (no wonder).
  • Some Christians (can understand that).
  • People who hate islam regardless of who they are (you can sense it from what the say and how they say it).
  • People who do not understand how great and fully sufficient their religion is for all times and for any aspect of life.
Within a few months we read a large amount of articles in all newspapers (government owned, and even some private ones) attacking and criticizing the second amendment.

It was like a group of people making a lot of noise to move a mountain. They failed and will always fail. It is as simple as that.

I remember when I was talking to someone and I said: “Imagine if they remove Islam from the constitution”.
He answer back:” hahaaaaaaaay! No way man! They are banging their head against a wall”.
Me: “Why?”
Him: ” For heaven’s sake, they already don’t apply it right and now they want to take it away even from on the constitution. They will cause Egypt to go up in flames if they do so”.
Me:” why?”
Him: “ first of all, the officials whom approves such a thing will most probably be assassinated.
Second, Egyptians are very attached to religion. So if you tamper with what one loves and might be (for many) the only thing left for them to have hope and pride in…you’ll enrage hell on yourself
Me: “ I agree, I think if anyone takes it out, Egypt will go into flames. God forbid!”.
Me: " Why do you think the ones criticising were the only ones doing the talking? i barely saw any Muslim stand up for those allegations".
Him:" Becuase we all know that they are a few, they can not do anything about it. And if they do, they will be playing with fire! uncontrolable fire that is!".

Although i have to add... Someone might think of a work around. As in, adding text that states that other specific source to be used. Or even changing it to "Islam is "a" source of legistlation" (instad of THE source of Legistlation).

We'll have to wait and see.

Anyway, lets see what some of them said about the second amendment:
Some people say: "Islam has nothing to do with politics. It shouldn’t. To keep it pure, it should be excluded from politics."
This shows very clearly that whoever says so, has very shallow knowledge of Islam.

I will quote a comment in one of my previous blogs: “It is amazing how some people think Islam is so weak, it can not outcast people who manipulate it".

Islam was sent to us as a way of life. In all aspects including Politics.

Iif you don’t think so, then ask yourself the following…

  • When the prophet sent diplomatic messengers to other civilizations, wasn’t that an act of diplomatic relations (politics)?

  • When the prophet signed peace agreements, wasn’t that an act of diplomatic relations (politics)?
  • When the prophet assigned Judges in various areas of Arabia, wasn’t that an act of government administration (politics)?

  • When the prophet assigned governor to different cities (i.e. Usama Ibn Zeid to Makkah), wasn’t that an act of government administration (politics)?

  • When the prophet gathered armies and went for war, wasn’t that an act of politics?

  • When the prophet put people in charge of beet el maal (sort of Ministry of Finance), wasn’t that an act of government administration (politics)?

  • What do we call all that happened in over the past 1400 years which at least 800 of them were dominated by Islamic state supremacy in all aspects of life?

Anyone who says islam has nothing to do with Politics is ignoring clear historical facts (beside verses in Quran if I may add).

If someone says, ok. I am with you on the same wave length. But, the countries that tried to apply islam in the current history are bad examples.

I’ll say... yes, you are right in some cases. But why are you ignoring the Turkish (Justice and Development) party and it’s success in administrating Turkey?
why are you ignoring the Morocco (Justice and Development) party and it’s success in Morocco ? (as much as they are allowed).

Why not give it a chance??????

Some people say: "I also wish that the second article of the Egyptian constitution will be changed because some people misinterpret it".

Note: I’m copying this off a discussion I had with a fellow blogger:

Just because some people as you said “misinterpret or misuse” Islam, that doesn't mean we throw away the whole system, sa7 wala eh?

Ya3ny, democracy has people manipulating it, does that mean we throw it away?...la2 tab3an.
We see where the problem is and fix it.

The problem is that Islam “IS NOT” being applied asasan 7adretek.

We only apply the werasa (heritance) and marriage parts of the islamic law.
Look around you and you'll know what i mean. Liquor is being sold by muslims (no regulation laws), we have gambling casinos, no strict human laws (unlike within the islamic state at it’s might)...etc.

For instance, do you know that the son of Amr Ibn Al Aas hit a copt only becuae he beat him in a horse race (note: Amr Ibn Al Aas did not know). The copt then sent a letter to Umar Ibn Al Khattab (the leader of the whole Islamic nation) complaining about this. Umar ibn Al Khattab asked the copt, Amr ibn Al Aas and his son all to come to Madinah (note: Madinah which is only for muslims to enter, a copt was allowed into it because there was injustice upon him). When they arrived Umar told of Amr and his son : “who gave you the right to enslave people while God created them free?!”. Not only that he asked the copts to hit Amr Ibn Al Aas’s son infront of all of them.

This is the type of Islam we should hold on to… the proud and just Islam.

Islamic fikh as i mentioned before is vast, and in it we can find what will please all.
Another point, you are ignoring (unintentionally of course) the historical fact that Egypt and the whole area has been an islamic state (or in one) for 1400 years. Of those, at least 800 were high times. In all aspects (human rights, science ..etc.).

Do you know that there were non-muslim people in the role of prime ministers and governors in the Islamic state. Not only Christians, Jews as well.

There are so many good example that would need a book to mention.
s, of course there was misuse here and there. But, in all ideologies and systems there will be abuse.

The solution is not by taking out that second article, the solution is finding more open minded or progressive applications of Islam (from within Quran and Suna). That's the way to go...

Some people say: "I don’t want a book that has descended 1400 year ago to judge me!"

Regardless of the ridiculousness of this allegation which shows how little that person knows about his\her religion, lets move on.

God’s wisdom is above time. It is eternal. When God sends us a religion to follow it is for us to follow for all time. Not just for a couple of years and then…”Ishta ya man, lets forget this!”.

We are talking about an everlasting ideology not a bicycle you can throw away!
God did not send us religion to waste time (asta3’fero Allah) and anything in Quran is applicable for all times.

At least this is how muslims are supposed to look at it.

Some people say (begin sarcastic) : "I never knew the Egypt was a person who could me a muslim. So you want to tell me that Egypt goes to pray and does Hajj".

Regardless of the lame, stupid argument from “ibn el 7’afeefa” who wrote this in Al Ahram newspaper. Here is the answer:
No, a country does not pray or do fasting. Why, because a country is considered a virtual person (sha7’seya i3tebareya). In other words it does not have a religion because only people can have religions.
So, someone would say:” you just proved what the guy said”.

I’ll say:” no, because what is meant by – The official religion in Egypt –
is Islam is …because the majority of the Egyptians ARE Muslims. This is a fact of life. Exactly as it is known that France is a Christian country (same reasons used).

Some people say: "It is not fair to Christians in Egypt. They to are Egyptians why only say that Islam is the main source of legistlation?"

It is said clearly that Islam is the main source of legislation. It did not in any way say it is THE ONLY source… balash talkeek!

In other words, other sources can be used as sources of legislation. So, rules can still change using other sources (depending on issue discussed).

For instance, a Christian is not obliged with the laws of having more than one wife (he doesn’t have the option), Can not get a divorce, and his wife can not divorce from him when there is a reasons.
All these instances are allowed in the Islamic law. Yet, they are not applied for non-muslims. Why? Simply because ISLAM IS NOT THE ONLY SOURCE OF LEGISTLATION!

Another thing, Christianity does not have a commercial, economic, and civil (inheritance or contracts...etc.) detailed laws as in Islam.
Actually, what Jesus said per Christian rules is (meaning of):” Give what is for Cesar to Cesar and what is for God to God”.

Do we need to say more?

Some people say: "We should remove Islam from the constitution not matter what! ".

Ok, just to humor whoever says that, lets say our parliament will (in fairy tales land) decide to remove the second amendment from the constitution…

  • Do you want to convince me (or anyone) that the Egyptian people (who per constitution have to vote on parliament decisions) will approve removing Islam as a source of legislation?
  • Do you want to convince me that Muslims who represent %90-93 of Egyptians (vast majority are known to love their religion no matter how bad or good as people they are) will approve such a thing?
If you think so, then…ok…dream on!

Some people say: "It is the cause of tensions between Christians and Muslims in Egypt".

Now that is the most lame and ridiculous accusation of them all. To simply answer that, NO IT IS NOT! And I can prove it…

In the constitution of 1923, it was mentioned that Islam is the religion of state. It was the same a it is now. Yet, from 1923 till the mid-1970s we never heard that it caused a problem or was a problem.

The main reason for tensions between muslims and Christians in Egypt is not Islam dear reader.
The reasons have to do with other things mainly :

  • Wrong way of applying rules (by Government officals).
  • Government individuals not being fair.
  • Not doing a "once and for all" rule for building churches and mosques.
  • Awful Education system that does not implant tolarence and moderate understanding of relgion in our schools.

And many others...In other words, the problem is with people.

Now the solution is easy, yet it needs determination, and a strong ruler with vision (and a ruling party that has the brains)…
Islamic fikh (way to conclude laws from Quran or Suna) as i mentioned before is vast, and in it we can find what will please all. We can produce suggested rules to stratify all (as much as possible), send them out for voting. and then we got the desired democratic result.

OK, here is some info (that most of us may not know):

Egypt is not the only country that states a religion in it’s constitution!

Some European Constitutions mentioned that the country is a Christian country.
Have you heard a muslim living there complaining and making a fuss to remove such a thing from that country's constitution?

Here are examples:

  • Greece: First amendment mentions that their religion is per the Eastern Orthodox Church.
  • Denmark: Constitution mentions that the king is from the Lutheran Angelic Church
  • Spain: Ninth amendment mentions that the president of the country is from the Catholic Church
  • Sweden: fourth amendment mentions that king is from the Anglican Church.
  • England: The third amendment mentions that the king (or Queen) is from the Church of England.
I don’t hear anyone complaining anyone of the minorities) about religion being mentioned (in one way or another) in those “democratic” countries.

On another account…
Have you heard someone there say: “ Remove the cross from over Englands flag, it is not fair because there are other minorities living there!”?

So, for God’s sake…why keep hitting on Islam being mentioned in our constitution (balash sho3’l el ba3’ba3’anaat dah! Lol)

Think of it in a different way...

When I as a Muslims (or any other guy\gal) who happen to love my (our) religion find or hear that an Egyptian brother\sister in country keeps saying “remove it! remove it!” what do you think it will cause in our already sensative relation?

Finally, I have to say, it is disappointing how some people are humiliating their heritage and religion, thinking Islam is just a religion between a person and God.

Islam ladies and gentlemen is much more than that, Islam is a way of life. It covers all aspects of life.

At the end I wish people to have some faith and pride in their religion as a sufficient system in all aspects including Politics.

I here by dedicate this photo (from Victoria and Albert Royal Museum in London). I want you to read what history and other nations say about Islam…

Read the last sentance and maybe you’ll get the message.

Do I need to say more?

Mood: chillin' :)


Anonymous said...


Just read this post of yours

Your views on Family, marriage, love, life in general, were interesting. This made me think of the TOTAL misuse of dowry laws by Indian women. Indian women are trying to settle scores by misusing dowry laws

The news below tops it all. Now, a Seven-yr-old faces dowry charges

This is in spite of the Criminal laws providing immunity to children !!!

more at the above URL

Thanks in advance for reading

Fadfadation said...

Thanks Vinayak.

I'll read about that now. I don't know what "dowry laws" is.

intristing :)

bibi-aisha said...

interesting as always, fadfadation. i felt saddened when i saw egyptians not practising Islam properly- what a blessing to live in a Muslim country. Right now in SA, the Western influence is truly corroding our Muslim society.
But alham, there are many who resist..

Fadfadation said...

Aaaaah, the precious western influance, what can we say :)

I am sure it is harder when living in a non-muslim cmmunity.

God be with us all :)

Anonymous said...

الفيلسوف الفرنسي جوستاف لوبون الذي يرى بأن "القرآن قانون ديني وسياسي واجتماعي، وأحكامه نافذة منذ قرون كثيرة،

Anonymous said...

all i have to say to answer this post and what you have to say about christians not wanting the second amendment removed is i think you should open your eyes we kefaya el 3ama ely enta fee 3ashan da mesh 3ama 3eneen da 3ama alb!!! there are many laws which affect christians living in egypt negatively and if you want proof of that compare how egypt was before this amendment was added and how muslims and christians used to interact with each other about 30 years ago to all the tension and fanaticism which we are all drowning in nowadays!!! maybe then you can actually see the difference and the ridiculously negative impact this has had on our country we kefaya 3ama ba2a, open your eyes and your heart and try to see the other sides point of view!!!!

Fadfadation said...

To answer your accusation about me being "a3ma el 2alb wel 3een" as you "politely" ya zoo2 put... i have 2 points:

You said:"there are many laws which affect christians living in egypt negatively and if you want proof of that compare how egypt was before this amendment was added and how muslims and christians used to interact with each other about 30 years ago to all the tension and fanaticism"

Historical fact (lely maye3rafsh):
In our 1923 constitution (note the date),it had clearly stated that "Egypt is an Islamic Country" which was removed in 1950s by Abdel Nasser and then returned in 1971's constitution by EL Sadat (which you are refering to as the beginning of the problem).

So, the amendment you are talking about (about Islam) has been there way before the last 30 years!
And as you mentioned, the fanatics only came to picture in the last 30years.

So, the problem is not that "Egypt is Islamic Country" amendment...
Think a bit and you hopefully will get my point!

You said: "negative impact this has had on our country "

The negative impact is in the people! and how they apply the system. As one quick proof, refer back to my above point...

how come from 1923 till 1950s no one had a problem with that amendment in the constitution, yet now... there are problems in Egypt?!

How we apply the law and agree to sit together and find a way to sort this out is the issue!... NOT ISLAM.

Just to be clear: You seem to have misunderstood my post!
i have by no way said that we do not have problems! and by no way said that we do not need to sort out a way for Christians and Muslims to live together.
I am just defending my point of view about Islam.

So, call me a3ma fel 2alb wee el 3een, wel regleen kaman if you want...
but, I think now it's your turn to stop acting like an "a3ma fel 3a2l wel baseera" (lol) and be fair and think reasonably... ISA mish 7ateb2a sa3ba 3aleek.