Saturday, November 17, 2007

Ever Argued With A Sufi? #2

Part two of my previous Post "Ever Argued With A Sufi? #1". These are the rest of the points of argument with Sufis…
  • Sufis say, we do what we do because a certain Wali or scholar said or did this before.
Abu Hanifa (one of the 4 biggest scholars in Islamic fikh) said: “Everyone’s thoughts or rulings are arguable, except the owner\builder of this part of heaven” (talking about the prophet and pointing at the Mosque in Maddinah where Abu Hanifa was giving a lesson at the time).

The unacceptable things Sufis do are not from the doings or teachings of God or his Prophet. The proof Sufis use to explain their doings is built on Walis sayings or doings or interpretation of some people.

We as muslims (that go by Quran and Suna) use proof and rules only stated in Quran and Suna.

Which one is more righteous do you think?

  • Sufi Walis introduce many special prayers and devotional acts into their schools.

The answer would be obvious using a typical Muslim's way of thought (per Quran and Suna)...

The prophet as you know was sent to us to reveal God’s religion (words…etc.) and to guide us. In the Hojat Al Wadaa3 or last pilgrimage (called Wadaa’a because he passed away after it and it was his last and only Hajj), the prophet said (meaning of):” Today I completed for you your religion (the revelation, rules and way of life), and I finished my blessing (the prophet was a blessing to mankind sent by God), and I inform you that Islam is the religion for you to take”.

As mentioned in Sorat Al Maaeda (verse 3):}الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الإِسْلامَ دِينًا {At this point the line was drawn and the revelation was complete and the guide for us in this life (Islam as a Shareea) was completed. Note, completed as in there is nothing missing!

Also the prophet said very clearly (meaning of):”Take from me your worshiping ways”.

(خذوا عني مناسككم)

Also, the prophet said (meaning of):” Pray like you saw me pray”.

(صلوا كما رايتموني اصلي)

If we add the three together, it is obvious that there is no proof we can come up with new ways of many special prayers and devotional acts. We should stick with what the prophet tought us, specifically when it comes ways of worship.


  • Some believe the sheikh (or Wali) of the Sufi way goes to Makkah and back in a short time when he is in a “Khalwa” (Khalwa: stay alone, when he isolates himself from people to attain a high state of soul indulgence experience) .
To our knowledge (based on Quran and Suna) only Prophets do such miracles. And the time of such miracles has gone. Some might argue maybe the Wali who does that is a Jin (ghost\spirit). The quick answer would be, well if he is, then he is not a Wali..is he!?!

A Wali giving a lesson

  • A lot of Sufi ways were (in many times) encouraged by governments and occupation because they tend to only care about spirituality and have nothing to do with stopping oppression, invasion…etc (jihad). Sufis (almost all) say that Jihad only means resisting the bad deeds of the soul.

Of course that is something rulers would love people to corner themselves in, so they can do what they want!

This type of non-political Islam is what the Sufis corner themselves in and of course politicians love. At least this is true in the current version of Sufism.

Not only that...in their perspective, God put every leader in a position, and people are not to say who comes and who goes. God put them, then no one takes them out!!!!!!!!!!!!

Special hello to Husni Mubarak and his likes :S


  • To Sufis, lying is part of politics and they are not supposed to lie, hence no politics.

Not to argue about lie and all that (you can be an honest politician if you want to and not lie), but their way of thought contradicts the prophet and his followers. For they were into politics (Islam is a way of life, in all aspects).


  • Some believe that through dancing and waving themselves about, they can become closer to God and become more spiritually transparent.

Some scholars answer this as follows:

Dancing and waving one self has nothing to do with religion… give one proof that the prophet did such things or even his followers!

Besides that, can you imagine going into the office of your manager wanting something and waving yourself about say:” O Ahmed, O Ahmed, O Ahmed”…is that a way to talk to a manager or even communicate? (not to forget, God has non alike and has His own status unlike any other! Laysa kamithilHi shay2).

In all cases, this is not a major point. Maybe getting closer to God this way works for some.

As long as it doesn’t include anything forbidden, I guess it can pass…yet, sticking to what the Prophet did in terms of worship (didn’t include any dancing and whirling) is the best way forward.

Some Extra Points For The Note:


  • Some say they can fly and have supernatural powers.

No comment.


  • Some people mention that Al Halaaj (a known Wali long gone) said he was Allah. Some Walis said they were an impersonation of Allah.

Asta3’fero Allah!!!! No comment again!


  • Some say they saw God with the eye of their heart (as in physically saw).

For heaven’s sake… the prophet and Moses couldn’t actually see God, and these people say they did…strange!!


  • Al Nakshabandiya Sufis go to Haj (Pilgrimage) in Cyprus to the house of their Wali.

Where in Islam (Quran or Suna) did they get that from, i have no idea.

Of course we all know where is the only place to do Haj as far as Islam is concerned! Mecca is the only place to go to Hajj to in case someone was wondering :S


  • Some say Walis can be your way for forgiveness.

Forgiveness is only through God…we direct our requests to HIM alone.

  • Sufis aim is only for one to work on the soul and heart. Some of them just forget anything else in this life. They even abandon life and go live in the wilderness.

Working on your soul and loving God is the major goal of Islam, but not alone. You have to care about this life and build\develop in it.

NOTE: It has to be noted that the Mystical part of Sufism has inspired many people into becoming more close to God. It also has to be noted that the Mystical part of Sufism has made a lot of people attracted to Islam (converts).

Walaho a3lam.

Sources:

  • Al Jazeera Documentary.
  • Monte Carlo Radio Documentary.
  • Wiki.
  • Personal Experience.

Mood: Done at last :)

11 comments:

embee said...

A very-much deserved kudos goes out to you for the very thorough information, research, and citation. Way to go ya Fad !

embee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fadfadation said...

Thanks for the encouragment Embee :)

I'm trying girl... i'm trying :)

Jade said...

Thanks Fad...
very cool posts.

Though it would have been nice to explain more the thought of Sufism & thier ideals in worship rather than the extreme personal beliefs that "some" adopt.

There are some very moderate Sufis - who live for the Love of God - yet also build & grow & are "normal" in the way they go about their islam.

Fadfadation said...

Jade,

You seem to miss out a few notes i added:

1-
Just to clarify a point, there is nothing wrong with Sufism except with a few weird things they say and do.

To make it more understandable, I hereby mention what Sheikh Hamza Yousef (renowned American "Converted to Islam" Preacher whom I find to have excellent Islamic thought):

“The means and goals of Sufism is something any Muslim would agree with (dedicated to Divine love and the cultivation of the elements of the Divine), but some of the ways they use (i.e. pleading the dead for things, wiping themselves against graves for blessings, …etc) that has nothing to do with Islam. I stand away from that.”

…and that exactly was our problem with my host's husband argument.


2-
NOTE: It has to be noted that the Mystical part of Sufism has inspired many people into becoming more close to God. It also has to be noted that the Mystical part of Sufism has made a lot of people attracted to Islam (converts).

3-
I used the word "Some Sufis" when i was mentioing things.

Hope that clarifies what i was doing.

Mohaly said...

Doing much of anything is not right whether it is for donya or akhra...Islam is clear and easy to follow, it doesnt need sofistication, passivity, nor violence and aggression.

Fadfadation said...

Well put ya MOhaly ya 7'oya :)

Anonymous said...

Good post, but the way it is phrased leaves one with the impression that most Sufis practise and believe in the nonsense what you describe here. Whereas some Sufis may, the reality is that most Sufis do not. There is also the same sort of "propaganda" used by some Sufi groups that say "some" Salafis are suicidal and murderers, and give the impression that all of them are.

Fadfadation said...

THanks Anon,

I see your point.

I intentionally didn't mention statistics or say that "many" or "few" of Sufis do\say\beleive the things... simply becuase there is no way to know that.
And more importantly, that is not what i wanted to focus\comment on.

Anonymous said...

I have been a Sufi for over 25 yrs. and I have never heard of the things you said re; rubbing against a tomb. I was taught to only ask God to hear my prayers. I was offended by your story and wish you would meet other Sufis to write about. Perhaps your host was not a Sufi but a fool? There are all kinds of people who claim to be religious. You should have left rather than write about a fanatic.

Fadfadation said...

Anon,

Well if you don't do these things...then great!

AS for if people do what i mentioned here or not.... actually there are thousands in Egypt who do or believe in the things i mentioned!

I'll re-quote from the blog post(Sufi #1) to clarify:
"
Just to clarify a point, there is nothing wrong with Sufism except with a few weird things they say and do.

To make it more understandable, I hereby mention what Sheikh Hamza Yousef (renowned American "Converted to Islam" Preacher whom I find to have excellent Islamic thought):

“The means and goals of Sufism is something any Muslim would agree with (dedicated to Divine love and the cultivation of the elements of the Divine), but some of the ways they use (i.e. pleading the dead for things, wiping themselves against graves for blessings, …etc) that has nothing to do with Islam. I stand away from that.”

"